| Anonymous |
20.09.2008 |
| NOW only if they did more tests like these, ya know like a Ascari KZ A10,
Porsche Dauer 962LM, SSC Aero's, Mclarens, and som on..heres hoping.. |
|
| Anonymous |
20.09.2008 |
| hahah Dinosaurs..lol |
|
| man1 |
21.09.2008 |
| frankly, i am not sure of the competence evo has in testing cars on tracks: they
timed the enzo slower than a mclaren f1, which as ridicolous as it gets. it does
look like they suffer from acute nationalistic syndrome... |
|
| Anonymous |
21.09.2008 |
| didnt the mclaren f1 do a 7:44 round the ring? but correct me if im wrong,
but..didnt the enzo just do a 7:25..im confused?????? |
|
| FastestLaps |
21.09.2008 |
 |
man1, I don't know what you're talking about. Enzo just did 7:25 and I haven't
heard of McLaren F1 laptime even close to that. |
|
| A156 |
21.09.2008 |
| "Nissan GT-R has so good results not because it is one of the very fastest cars
around but it is one of the easiest to drive close to the limit, without taking
too much risk." FastestLaps, you are so right! I saw some comments talking about
how strange is for Enzo to do that Laptime. This is not strange at all! Enzo is
one of the fastest car ever made. Maby the fastest real car in high speed
tracks. But it is not easy to drive and costs... a lot! I think that is capable
of doing better time especially if Ferrari had taken part in that "Nordschleife
war" like nissan and chevrolet. |
|
| Anonymous |
21.09.2008 |
| what do you mean the fastest REAL car in high speed tracks? and chevy isnt in a
(nurburgring war)they just happen to be the top dogs...well later when they slip
in to th 7-teens.. |
|
| Georg |
21.09.2008 |
 |
Chevy is in a laptime war... since a long time..with the Z06 with the ZR1, as
Nissan claimed the GT-R laptime they were the first saying we beat that time ... |
|
| A156 |
21.09.2008 |
| I'm talking about the "trackday oddballs", Caparo Radical etc. The Enzos
horsepower and downforce gives it an advantage in high speeds. The question is
how brave is its driver to take it to the limit in every corner of a
Nordschleife full lap. And yes, Georg is right about Chevrolet! |
|
| Anonymous |
21.09.2008 |
| ok Caparo T1 vs Radical SR8LM vs Caterham RST-V8 vs Ariel Atom 500 V8 who will
win the nurburgring battle??? o and when one of these cars goes to the ring
would it be considered a lap record or just a really good lap?? like the
radical? |
|
| Anonymous |
21.09.2008 |
| ooo know thats a tough choice, the t1 has the power and (maybe) weight, but the
sr8 is a pure trackday car. DAMN thats one tuff comparison bro, i cant decide,
or i should say i havent a clue lol |
|
| man1 |
22.09.2008 |
| FastestLaps:i was not talking about Nordschleife, i was referring to evo's older
test at bedford:
http://www.fastestlaps.com/track10.html
which obviously casts a long shadow on evo's objectivity.
as for the times recorded at nordschleife, as someone have already said, the
mc12-enzo and presumably zonda could have performed better if the respective
firms would have taken seriously the challenge themselves as corvette, dodge,
nissan, honda... did. It would be nice to know the tires the cars were running
on (in fiorano enzo i over 2 secs quicker with pirelli p0 corsa than with
bridgestone) and the pilot's name.
Incidentally, evo's test shows also how slow Sport Auto's Saurma drove the
scuderia (which is approximately as quick as Enzo on track) around the ring. as
i have always claimed Saurma's scuderia time was at least 15 secs off, while
Saurma's porsche times are consistently almost on par with Rohrl's... |
|
| Heyhuub |
22.09.2008 |
| @man1
The Scuderia is as fast as the Enzo on Fiorano yes. But the Nurburgring has
allot of long straights and high speed corners which favor the superior power
output and high downforce of the Enzo. |
|
| Exorcet |
22.09.2008 |
| I'd wager than the Scuderia is as fast as an Enzo. You can't take lap times
taken from different days with different drivers to be so accurate.
The 430 is ACR fast. BTW Dodge didn't really "challenge" themselves, they sort
of showed up for a day, did 4 laps (somewhat sloppily) and ended up with a
record. And yes, I'm just defending my favorite car.
What surprises me though; I expected the Zonda to flat out walk away from the
others. These lap times were also pretty fast considering that they're magazine
tests. |
|
| pierpaolo |
22.09.2008 |
| You forget to say that the GTR is a car that you can drive anyday whit a litlle
bit of comfort and so for a gt car is not too bad 7.29 at Nordschleife,Enzo
Zonda Mc12 are another category cars that they do not an impressive time at
nurburgring
(sorry for the bad english) |
|
| man1 |
22.09.2008 |
| Heyhuub: Scuderia is as fast as enzo on fiorano, slightly faster on vairano and
certainly slower on nardo' :-) Ferrari claims, and it is reasonably accepted,
that Enzo compared to scuderia, has an edge on straights, but it looses ground
in breaking and low speed turns because of the scuderia's superior p0corsa,
brakes and e-diff. also in sections with lots of gear changes the scuderia is
superior because of the much faster gearbox hardware.
on fast mixed sections with medium-fast (160-230kmh) corners, i would guess it
is more debatable which one is faster, because of the much improved aerodynamics
of the 430scuderia versus the base version. there, power output difference is
irrelevant.
some of these infos are contained in this test
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/exotic
112_0808_2008_ferrari_430_scuderia_test/index.html
overall, i would think that on the nordschleife, both cars wearing p0corsas,
enzo might have a slight edge (max 3secs). but if enzo runs on bridgestones,
then i wouldn't be too surprised if the scuderia could upset her older brother. |
|
| man1 |
22.09.2008 |
| pierpaolo: Enzo, Zonda, Mc12 recorded an unimpressing time compared with the
Gt-r just because the drivers did not spend an entire year testing the cars on
the track, and did not push them as hard as gt-r. crashing one of the 370some,
1million€ remaining enzos is not the same as crashing a 70k€ gt-r. the same
holds for the various corvettes and vipers... |
|
| Exorcet |
22.09.2008 |
| I think the GT-R is over estimated, but only slightly. Some of it's times look
pretty amazing, but when it's compared to cars same track/same day, it doesn't
look as if it's 20 years ahead of everything else (only 10 years). I mean there
are plenty of lap times that don't seem to make sense, where a "slower" car
makes it around quicker than a "faster" car. It's because a lot of variables
changed inbetween and thew off the results. Porsche's GT2 seems to kick the GT-R
around at most tracks when compared head on, but it's slower around the Ring.
I'm not downplaying the Nissan, great car, a 3800lb/480 hp car running
with/ahead of a Z06 is pretty impressive, but it still can't get around the laws
of physics.
Also, I'm sure the cars in this test were pushed pretty hard. An Enzo is pretty
valuable, but a prototype car can cost as much, and news of a manufacturer
crashing during a Ring attempt could spell a lot of bad publicity. I'm also sure
the guys at Nissan, Dodge, and Chevy like thier cars as much certain lucky
owners like their Enzos. |
|
| man1 |
23.09.2008 |
| exorcet:
no prototype has marked the times we are talking about. nobody really cares of
crashed cars during testing as Rohrl himself reportedly crashed few cgt but
porsche didn't fail to sell all their cars...
it appears that the driver of this test was besseng a pro who has already tested
the zonda clubsport. most of the cars used for this test were privately owned,
each of them numbered and 3 of them long out of production and virtually
unreproducible. frankly, you can't compare the responsability besseng born
driving each of these cars with a corvette or viper's tester, driving mass
produced factory test cars which nobody cared if they imploded in a black hole.
i am sure that nissan, corvette,... would gladly destroy 5 of their cars for
each second dropped at the nordschleife, given the market spin they have all
undertaken. |
|
| man1 |
23.09.2008 |
| i apologize, i meant to write marc basseng and not besseng. |
|
| Exorcet |
23.09.2008 |
| Fair enough, but I think you're being a little harsh on the other companies.
There are car guys in there. It's the business/management side that tends to go
for greed. I'm part of a FSAE team, our race car costs less than some sedans,
but we certainly would mind if it crashed. |
|
| Anonymous |
23.09.2008 |
| yeha gotta admit with only 600 bhp and weighing 3380 and only being $98,000, the
ACR is incredible. same with the ZR1 with being $105,000 and GT-R being $80,000,
its a lil akward seing these under $100,000 super cars whoop these $600,000
supercars, its quite impressive. i do favor the zonda though, straight beautiflu
inside and out. its nice too see cars from america and japan to show em whos
boss. i mean i know the GT-R didnt beat them but that 7:29 is insane, same goes
with the ZR1 who didnt beat them cause they didnt have that good a driver and a
sloppy lap, and the ACR which had a horrible lap, but its just nice too se ya
know but wait for the V-Spec to come out which will be killer, but unfortunetly
all these cars will be blown away by the Ultima GTR 720 which WILL take the
record, not that im complaning though, anyhoo its just nice too see these
unlikly cars beat thes super high priced cars.. |
|
| Georg |
23.09.2008 |
|
@pierpaolo
You have to be a hardcore fan if you buy a GT-R as daily driver... I have read
and seen lot of tests... and all claime the same, no matter in what setting the
suspesnion is the car is rock hard with no comfort left at all |
|
| pierpaolo |
23.09.2008 |
| georg
what do you expect for a 7.29 car,a lincoln continental suspension setting?I
don't think so,i mean Gtr remain always another category compared with these
"dinosaurs",it is loudness,it has a real trunk,four seater ecc |
|
| Anonymous |
23.09.2008 |
| GT-R's ride quality never bothered me any.. |
|
| man1 |
23.09.2008 |
| exorcet: in case you wonder i didn't EXACTLY mean what i have said about the
black hole! i have just used that metaphor to use some colorful language ! :-)
i commend everybody who has passion and engages in popularizing safe
motorsports. |
|
| FastestLaps |
23.09.2008 |
|
Talking about Scuderia vs Enzo: This new Enzo laptime just shows that 430
Scuderia is not exactly Enzo fast. At Fiorano it probably was as fast as the
Enzo but, just like Heyhuub said, Nordschleife laptimes benefit alot from those
additional 150 hp. Ferrari wanted you to believe that Scuderia is as fast as
Enzo because they had to sell them. |
|
| Marco |
23.09.2008 |
| In Fiorano Scuderia is as fast as the Enzo only with different tyres.
Enzo with P Zero Corsa set 1.22.3, more than two second faster than Scuderia.
|
|
| man1 |
23.09.2008 |
| fastestlaps: "Ferrari wanted you to believe that Scuderia is as fast as Enzo
because they had to sell them."
excatly! hadn't ferrari made us believe that the scud is as fast as enzo, they
would have had hard time in selling their scuderias... :-)
that scuderia is no slower than enzo (on bridgestones) on slower tracks is not
only a ferrari claim, but appears from several tests: vairano, bedford (not
directly comparable) and on topgear's track itself the scuderia's time is quite
debatable (just check the elapsed time from still to 1-2nd gear change and 2-3rd
change in the video and compare that with standard magazine's acceleration split
times to realize how poorly that car has been driven).
enzo will benefit from 150hp extra on n-ring, but not as much as you may think,
as the koenigsegg's time suggests. all in all, i think basseng would have almost
certainly matched cgt time with the scuderia had he tested the car on the same
day. |
|
| Georg |
23.09.2008 |
|
@pierpalo
For what does it have adjustable suspension if there is NO different in ride
comfort? makes no sense at all and is a waste of weight and resources and I want
a car that I can use every day not only at the race track |
|
| Georg |
23.09.2008 |
|
@pierpalo
99.9999999999999999999% of all GT-R produced will NEVER see the northloop or be
driven in 7:29min around it.. |
|
| pierpaolo |
23.09.2008 |
| Georg I'm agree with you,I think that you can appreciate the difference only in
a severe conditions like a race track,however you can't see the difference using
the car everyday,often the variable suspension setting is the ultimate
"marketing choice" to sell the car,like the shift-paddlle in the early 2000.For
the 7.29 of the i can say the same for whatever car that turn in the ring |
|
| Anonymous |
24.09.2008 |
| are there any advantages or disadvantages to having a big or a small engine?
like the 7.0L V8 and the 4.3L V8??? |
|
| Anonymous |
24.09.2008 |
| First, displacement is not size of the engine. GM's 427 ci engine is smaller
than many 200-300 ci engines. Typical advantages of a large displacment engine
is more torque, which can lead to more power, and the ability to produce mroe
power under lower stress. Small displacment engines are able to rev higher, so
they produce more power from less torque. Overall, it doesn't really make much
difference for most street or race cars, either way can make a car very fast. |
|
| Anonymous |
24.09.2008 |
| wait wait wait wait, a 427 cubic inch smaller than a 200-300 cubic
inch??????????? |
|
| Anonymous |
24.09.2008 |
| Yes, OHV is more compact than OCH, which allows the LS7 to weigh about 450 lbs
vs the M5's 5L V-10 which is 530 lbs. |
|
| AJ1575 |
24.09.2008 |
| Somewhere above the McLaren F1 was mentioned. There is an old laptime (even with
vidoe somewhere). The time was 7.44 Keep in mind, that the F1 is almost 15years
old. So its time isn't that bad, if you compare it to cars of the same time; the
original Viper, Corvette C5, the Porsches from that time never got under 7.50
(except Gemballas and Ruf). |
|
| Mafalda |
24.09.2008 |
| @ Marco
Sources about Enzo PZero Corsa 1'22"3 ? |
|
| Anonymous |
24.09.2008 |
| which RUF got under 7:50 besides the RT12???? |
|
| Marco |
25.09.2008 |
| Mafalda, you're a friend of F 40 Le Mans (autopareri forum). He can give you any
source about this time.
I remember a discussion about 1.22.3 but i can't find now a source.
When i'm able to give you this source i'll make it.
I have i PDF in which Ferrari Enzo lap Sugo circuit in 1.34 with Bridgstone and
in 1.31 with P Zero Corsa.
If you are interested in this i can send a mail to F 40 Le Mans and he can give
it to you.
I read you on supercar forum, very interesting posts, congratulations.
|
|
| Anonymous |
26.09.2008 |
| im still really surprised a the times of these monsters, not so much the zonda,
but in the enzo and mc12 i wouldnt have guessed they would be so fast, dont get
me wrong these cars are the kings of there companys but im just really surprised
i would guessed 7:30 mc and 7:32 enzo.. |
|
| A156 |
26.09.2008 |
| WHY??? I mean if these cars are not fast then what is? GTR is a suprise, cars
like Enzo MUST be fast. |
|
| Marco |
30.09.2008 |
| In the six line of this article you can find a reference for 1.22.3 Fiorano lap
time's for Enzo.
I have other sources, when i find them, i'll tell you.
http://en.netlog.com/go/explore/videos/videoid=1195190 |
|
| Anonymous |
02.10.2008 |
| wait for it.............7:06....is all i got too say....................Z...... |
|
| Anonymous |
03.10.2008 |
| i may sound kinda stupid for saying this, but, i am realllly surprised at that
ring time, 7:25, daaaamn, now if only they could test my favorite car the
Porsche Dauer 962LM, it would DECIMATE everything in its path, any guesses on
its time???.... |
|
| Anonymous |
04.10.2008 |
| if i had too guess i would say around 6:40 maybe for the 962LM, i mean it is a
stripped out Le Mans car for the road so yeah thats ma guess.. |
|
| Ankoa13 |
06.10.2008 |
| The web shows no trace of the article there is no video or commentary leaving me
nothing to link to to evidence this Laptimes. So i am full of skepticism..... |
|
| Heyhuub |
06.10.2008 |
| http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=true&bottom=120&gID=
0&fID=2&tID=164756 |
|
| Ale-///AMG |
07.10.2008 |
| I love this kind of supercars with mid-engine,i would like to see a CLK GTR lap
time in this famous track^^.The best looking supercar is the CGT |
|
| Resto |
15.10.2008 |
| I cannot understand why so many people are so surprised of the lap time of the
enzo and the mc12..these monster are made for the track!! do u have any idea of
how many times the testers of ferrari and maserati (and lamborghini too) run on
these constructor's private track?(maybe in other country you can't ear all the
every-day notice that we know in italy) the switch on the ferrari to select the
RACE mode is not for beauty..it works..and it's only for real pilots..
The scuderia maybe is not so fast like the enzo but there isn't so much
difference.. the final tests of the scuderia was made personally by
Schumacher..even the last modify to the car.. but keep in mind that the enzo is
not so new like the scuderia.. there some tecnology difference..
The scuderia is easyer to push to the limits 'cause the last ferrari are made to
be easyly drive for everyone(don't misunderstand, i mean with the normal mode,
it's harder with the sport mode and for pilots with the race mode).. but for
sure the 430scuderia is clearly easyer to drive in comparison with an older
360challege.. the special version of the 'normal' 360 it was difficult to
drive..
So remember, the italian supercar are not made only to looks cool but to be even
so fast.. create a supercar is a challenge so their try always to be the best..
this site is so nice
Sorry for my imperfect english..
Bye, Resto (an italian boy) |
|
| minimac93 |
16.10.2008 |
| What I would like to see is:
Ascari A10
Aston Martin DBS
Caparo T1
Ferrari F40
Ferrari F50
Gumpert Apollo
Ultima GTR |
|
| Anonymous |
16.10.2008 |
| ide love too see that too i would guess for them all, A10-7:18, DBS-7:54-,
Caparo??, F40-7:48, F50-7:45, Apolo 650-7:19, and the GTR-7:30, Those would be
my guesses, i hope somebody tests these cars real soon.. |
|
| VIPER |
31.10.2008 |
| VIPER ACR 722 AT THE RING WITH NO ALL WHEEL DRIVE . SSSSSSSSSEEYAH |
|
| Anonymous |
14.11.2008 |
| I MOTHER FU***NG SAW AN MC12 TODAY!!!!!!!! IT WASNT BLUE AND WHITE EITHER...IT
WAS ALLLL BLACK WITH A BLACK AND WHITE INTERIOR, ILL TRY TO UPLOAD SOME PICKS
PUT IM NOT TOO SURE HOW TO FROM A CAMERA PHONE? BUT IT WAS FKNKNKNKNKN
AWESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSOME..LOL |
|
| PhantomPorsche |
14.11.2008 |
 |
That is great, I still havent seen one. My favorite cars i ever saw was a
Carrera GT, CLK63 Black, F430, Original 911 2.7 RS, GT3 RS, and dont remember
any more nice cars but there are alot more. |
|
| Anonymous |
17.11.2008 |
| For a production car VIPER is tops.Seven seconds FASTER than GTR!!!!!!!!!Can you
frgin dig it.If i was a jap lover i would want one. Noone has come close! |
|
| Anonymous |
19.11.2008 |
| now only if they would test the F50 and F40..and it is a surpris to see a
$98,000 car whoop these other $400,000 cars at the most diffucukt course in the
world, who would thought? |
|
Why nobody did it before? It appears that nobody was ever brave enough to go to 